Learning the same tune on both necks

[Bill McCloskey]

I recently had a conversation with a guy who played C6 really well. I asked him for some tips on getting better on the back neck. His response was that he learns everything on both necks. Whatever he learns on one neck, he learns on the other neck. This provides him a great way to learn how the two necks connect.

Anyone else try and do this?

[Tom Campbell]

I do the same, only I transpose what I play on my S-10 to my 8 string lap steel.
I setup the 8 string to the approximate key the S-10 song is played in (A6. B6, E9 B11).
Great mental exercise for this "old" mind!!!

[Richard Alderson]

The first thought that occurs to me is to tune down from C6th to B6th on the back neck. That way all the frets also line up. If you try it for one week, you'll never go back. Just lower each string 1/2 step down.

[Howard Parker]

Required of me occasionally when overdubbing parts. I'll send a C6 track to the artist. I may get a reply that says "nope, we want a classic E9 treatment".

Ok then..No prob. Here it comes.

h

[John Larson]

The first thought that occurs to me is to tune down from C6th to B6th on the back neck. That way all the frets also line up. If you try it for one week, you'll never go back. Just lower each string 1/2 step down.

Do you have any problems with keeping tension on the low B?

[Richard Alderson]

No, there's virtually no difference and no real need to change strings. Just lower all of 'em a half step.

[Bill McCloskey]

so when you hit the 8th pedal, you have an Ab on string 10?

[Bill McCloskey]

Wow. I just did this on my sho-bud. It actually makes everything sound just a little better. And I totally get the 6th pedal down thing. Time to explore.

[Ian Rae]

I started on a D10 with the back neck tuned down to B
When I swapped to a uni 12 it was seamless

[I forgot to add - now every tune is on both necks!]

[J D Sauser]

I recently had a conversation with a guy who played C6 really well. I asked him for some tips on getting better on the back neck. His response was that he learns everything on both necks. Whatever he learns on one neck, he learns on the other neck. This provides him a great way to learn how the two necks connect.

Anyone else try and do this?

I don't think it's bad advice. I would add that one should play each lick, run, phrase and tune in 2 keys about a 4th or 5th away from another in about the same positions (so, NOT just sliding all up or down 5 or 7 frets).
What I would however add to above's advice is that when it comes to learning a tune on both necks, that doesn't forcedly have to mean note for note... each tuning and setup has it's thing Sure, folks like BE could play "E9th"-sounds on C6th evidently "C6th"-sounds on E9th (the later being much easier)... but I think you would want to be able to bring out the best of each neck in a tune.


... J-D.

[Howard Parker]

but I think you would want to be able to bring out the best of each neck in a tune.
... J-D.

Vive la difference!!

h

[J D Sauser]

but I think you would want to be able to bring out the best of each neck in a tune.
... J-D.

Vive la difference!!

h

Et oui!... et vive la liberté!... J-D.

[Dennis Detweiler]

This is processing the E9/B6 U-12

[Bill McCloskey]

I've explored universal tunings but in the end you always miss a little something that you get with having two discrete necks.

[Dale Rottacker]

In October of 2021, after close to 50 years of E9th, and only a smattering of C6th things like Night Life intro and Girl From Ipanema, it finally dawned on me that I wasn't getting any younger and if I was going learn C6th, it was going to have to be from leaving E9th alone.

So I decided that anything that I would normally play or attempt to play on C6th I was going to just bite the bullet, and hunt my way around C6th to find the notes, chords, voicing's and grips needed.
My method is pretty backwards and don't think I'd recommend it for others, but a methodical, theoretical based approach is like grasping sand for me. I see squirrels everywhere I look, so it's difficult for me to not get sidetracked and head down a variety of rabbit holes. I'm sure its a character flaw of sorts, but I've always tried to run ahead of the cart.

Anyhow, back on point ... I'd already been playing C6th sounds, or fancy "adult" chords on E9th, which seemed to come pretty natural for me, so I had those type of sounds in my head. So I'd find patterns that I used on E9th, and try to find comparable patterns on C6th. The biggest thing to wrap my mind around was the 3 in 1 thing on C6th ... I STILL can't tell you on the fly what chords or chord types I'm playing, but each attempt makes it easier to instinctively go to the spots where those sounds I'm hearing in my head can be found.

I'll never get great on C6th, much like I'll never be great on E9th, even after 50 plus years, but I can occasionally find sounds that make me smile.

[J D Sauser]

In October of 2021, after close to 50 years of E9th, and only a smattering of C6th things like Night Life intro and Girl From Ipanema, it finally dawned on me that I wasn't getting any younger and if I was going learn C6th, it was going to have to be from leaving E9th alone.

So I decided that anything that I would normally play or attempt to play on C6th I was going to just bite the bullet, and hunt my way around C6th to find the notes, chords, voicing's and grips needed.
My method is pretty backwards and don't think I'd recommend it for others, but a methodical, theoretical based approach is like grasping sand for me. I see squirrels everywhere I look, so it's difficult for me to not get sidetracked and head down a variety of rabbit holes. I'm sure its a character flaw of sorts, but I've always tried to run ahead of the cart.

Anyhow, back on point ... I'd already been playing C6th sounds, or fancy "adult" chords on E9th, which seemed to come pretty natural for me, so I had those type of sounds in my head. So I'd find patterns that I used on E9th, and try to find comparable patterns on C6th. The biggest thing to wrap my mind around was the 3 in 1 thing on C6th ... I STILL can't tell you on the fly what chords or chord types I'm playing, but each attempt makes it easier to instinctively go to the spots where those sounds I'm hearing in my head can be found.

I'll never get great on C6th, much like I'll never be great on E9th, even after 50 plus years, but I can occasionally find sounds that make me smile.

One of the many problems with learning an instrument is that at least with the first instrument, we not only have to learn "the instrument" but technique and MUSIC as such all in one.
While, newer generations which now switch "back" from E9th to C6th, technique is already in part covered (C6th will need more bar work), and "some" music (in most cases traditional 3-chord Country) is also absorbed, C6th is usually not the tuning folks seek out to play "I Destroyed The World (..., again )" or "A Way To Survive (..., it )" but Western Swing and or even Jazz from Standards over Be-Hard-&-Post Bop to Modern and even Neo Soul, which is in itself a deeper dive into "Music" and certain fundamental musical concepts need to be studied.

I must say that, I came back to "a Swing" tuning from E9th-Universal and I chose to try a whole different method than what books and videos seem to go for: I went single note melody and improvisation on a PSG with probably the most complete setup (S12 with 6P & 8K) WITHOUT using any pedals and levers. It's great for developing technique, but most of all, it's shown me the "hidden" (the less obvious) uses of pedals and levers.
I am not yet convinced this is the method I would recommend to a new player. But for me it's working for what MY goals are.

The Universal vs. Double Neck debate:
We've been there over and over again since the forum got up and running in the mid 1990's:
Jeff Newman played things on his relatively "basic" E9th-U most couldn't play like that on their loaded D10's because like Maurice Anderson who played both, a fairly standard E9th Universal and a more unique Jazz-oriented Bb6th with limited "E9th" (Eb 9th really) changes (mainly a set of A&B pedals to do "them" sounds, they BOTH understood that it was NOT a "this or that"-switch tuning but ONE big setup and tuning and that changes which are considered to belong to "this or the other tuning, could be used on both sides and actually represented changes which were often added to D10's tunings here and there. Something that is often hard to see because C.Major does not relate to E.Major (as Maurice used to put it).
The last time I saw Maurice LIVE was (besides at his home) was at the 2000 Dallas Jamboree. He came in with "his" own band (brass etc) and laid down a REAL Jazz (not "Steel Guitar Swing) set which left Biggies like John Hughey, Bobby Bowman and Hall Rug in awe (turning around and pointing at him). Little did most realize that Maurice was playing his Black & Green MSA... which probably only his friends and fans did recognize was NOT his Bb6th-U but his E9th/B6th Universal.

With my S12 with "all" the changes imaginable on C6th I should probably not say that, but C6th can be played with very BASIC changes to rock the world once the player understands Jazz Harmony and the fact that most changes have MANY uses beyond the most obvious ones. I would venture to theorize that a very Basic 5&1 10-string BE C6th will outplay any Jazz standard guitarist... except for speed (especially in extended chromatic runs).
I should also want to remind that we believe that BE's 1962 "Steel Guitar Jazz"-Album was recorded on an early Sho-Bud with no splits and the basic 5&1 setup.
And a very basic E9th-U, like Jeff Newman's was, will have many changes coming from the E9th pedals which will carry over into B6th.


... J-D.