Wet Sound versus Dry Sound

[Barry Yasika]

I've noticed a trend among the remaining steel players—there's been a shift in how effects are being used. Back in the early days, players were practically swimming in reverb. Then, into the '80s, delay and reverb were both staples, shaping the sound of that era.
These days, I’m seeing younger players back off the heavy effects. They’re leaning into a more stripped-down approach. Mike Johnson’s a good example—he’s said he only uses around 300 milliseconds of delay. That’s not much, but it gives his tone just enough thickness without muddying it.
There are still plenty of folks using big reverb and delay (myself included). I’ve tried dialing things back, but I just can’t get used to the drier sound. You really need sharp ears and flawless intonation to pull that off.
Has anyone else managed to break away from effects? Were you successful—or did the tone feel flat to you too

[Nigel Mullen]

In the old days I used a lot of reverb. I played an MSA through a fender vibrosonic amplifier and it sounded real good to me. Since then I purchased an Emmons push pull and I use a peavey Nashville 112 and an old Boss DD3. With this set up I don't use reverb at all, just a bit of delay and I think it's the best sound I have ever had. Just my 2 cents. NM

[Chuck Lemasters]

If I could add 300 milliseconds of delay and sound like Mike Johnson……I have tried a couple of delay units and have never been able to get them adjusted to make enough difference to warrant carrying and using them. Reverb set on 2&1/2 to 3 is all I have ever used…and I am not a young guy, 74 today….just a Goodrich volume pedal, two cords, and an amp….

[Dennis Detweiler]

Before I started using effects, I just used subtle amp reverb. Enough to hear it. Then I added a Morley EDL (electro-static delay) to thicken it a little. Now I use two pedals....analog delay around 350ms and set with 3 repeats (after watching Emmons set his Echoplex). 1st repeat half the volume of the initial note. 2nd repeat half the volume of the 1st repeat. 3rd repeat barely audible. Then use the mix knob to detail it. Then add the reverb pedal with just enough reverb to blend the delay repeats. I end up with a lush tail to the notes and not sounding like I'm playing in a deep cave. It all caters to the room ambiance. So yes, I still use delay and reverb since the early 80's.

[Dale Rottacker]

From the time I started playing in the early 70's until 10-12 years ago, the only reverb I used was the Spring Reverb in my Twin or Peavey amps. Then Jim Lindsey told me about the Profex ll, and I was hearing goodness I'd never heard before. After that Mark Tulbert reached out to me and offered to send me a Lexicon MPX1 to try out. Something I believe both Buddy and John Hughey used. I was in heaven. From there I moved to a Steel Dream and a TC Flashback, and really enjoying these new to my ear sounds, that admittedly I've had a tendency to use too much of and have had to slowly dial back a little at a time until my ear adjusts to it.

Now when I try to record and mix music I'm using both reverb and delay, but both of those, regardless how much of it you use sound better if you eq them first, rolling of the lows maybe even up to 500 or 600hz. as reverb and delay both will muddy up the bottom end if not careful.

I've heard mix engineers say that for a period of years reverb and delay were used more sparingly but that recently it has been coming back in recorded music. I can't speak to that as I rarely listen to music, but I'll take their word for it.

Taste is a funny thing, some want dressing with their salad and some want salad with their dressing, and some don't want either. I prefer dressing cause there's nothing good about undressed spinach.

[Dennis Detweiler]

As Dale said, in regard to placement of those pedals in an amp. I found best results using reverb and delay pedals in the effects loop of an amp, if so equipped. If used in front of an amp, it's beneficial to use a buffer pedal (ex: Matchbox or Freeloader) between the guitar and volume pedal to clean up the signal.

[Jim Pitman]

Regarding placing effects before the amp or in the effects loops, the results you get depend on the input impedance of the effects unit itself. Generally, the PSG pickup is much higher impedance by nature than a regular electric guitar pickup because the bobbin is about twice as big since it must cover more strings. Bigger bobbin means more wire which in turn means higher impedance.
How does pickup impedance affect tone?
There are a couple ways. Any given amp may have input filtering that is dependent on series resistance of the pickup. Another point is the cable capacitance combines with the pickup impedance to form a low pass filter (highs rolled off earlier in the spectrum).
Most tube amps have a very high input Z (impedance) ~ 1 MEG ohm. Solid state amps seem to vary from one manufacturer to another, but once again , like effects pedals, they are designed for six string electric guitar pickups. In fact I found a benefit to changing the resistor that's ultimately across the input Jack on my peavey amps from 270k to 470K.
I have an old school Electro-harmonix delay that apparently has a very high Z input. It does not roll of the highs. I have a Yamaha multi-affects unit that has a lower Z and I found it attenuates the highs if you plug into it directly. It works better in the affects loop.
BTW, buffers are simply a gain of one unit with high input impedance.

[Ian Rae]

Sometimes I uses a definite effect, like electric piano or synth or organ, but when I just want to sound like a guy playing steel I use just enough basic reverb (Lexicon MX200) to stop it sounding dry and one-dimensional, with maybe a longer decay on a slower song.
Generally, I reckon if you're conscious of it then it's too much.

[Bobby Martin]

In my humble opinion, there's an art to using reverb and volume pedal control. Dry tone has never done it for me. First love will always be heavy reverb "surf instrumentals", Duane Eddy and Ventures tones that I've been using on pedal steel since the '70s. My tape Echolpex stopped mid-solo at a gig, never trusted it again. Boss DD-3 is nice, but only on rare occasions for lead guitar these days. Ultra-conservative " old school" player here, still gettin' gigs so I must be doing something right!

[Cappone dAngelo]

As with any effects/processing, what makes sense should be informed by the music. On my most recent gig where I played lap steel on 3 tracks, one was dry, one had a short delay mixed relatively wet, and one had a long, modulated delay - because that's what I felt the respective tracks warranted (by design, the set covered a WIDE range of music/styles - on other gigs I might use the same tone for a whole set).

So my advice is to keep an open ear/mind, don't be concerned with current or past trends, and do what you think serves the particular music, unless and until the MD/producer instructs otherwise. But I do agree that you should be comfortable playing totally dry.

[David Wren]

Years ago a recording engineer told me reverb puts you "further back" in the mix. I agree, and only use a slight amount, with a 300 millisecond slap back.

Not all agree

[Nathan Pocock]

Yes verb does push something back in the mix BUT dry pedal steel is generally extremely bright and present so it really needs some pushing back IMO. Obviously this is context dependent, a pretty smooth ballad sound is probably gonna want a denser reverb with a longer tail than a speed picking style needs.

Years ago a recording engineer told me reverb puts you "further back" in the mix. I agree, and only use a slight amount, with a 300 millisecond slap back.

Not all agree

[Barry Yasika]

I don't really know. Back in the day and by that I mean the 80's, everyone and their brother seemed to use effects. Could've been distortion, phase shifter, chorus but there was almost always a strong presence of reverb and delay. I know Emmons used it, so did Herbie Wallace, Bobby Seymour and a lot of other reputable names out there. The only one I can remember not using a noticeable amount of anything was Doug Jernigan back than. His thing was always that lightening fast speed picking though so maybe effects just got in his way, he also played great ballad type stuff too though.

Just seems that lately I've notice the absence of heavy effects. The first person I ever heard say that was Bruce Bouton on his instructional video. He said he had used alot of that stuff but went back to a cleaner more effectless sound. Not with all players out there have thrown effects to the wayside, some still use it and sound fine. I guess I'm just old and set in my ways, it's hard to get used to the sound without it being a bit wet to some degree so I guess I'll just keep using it. It's not like my phone is ringing off the hook with gigs so I doesn't really matter anymore.

[Fred Treece]

Mike Johnson’s a good example—he’s said he only uses around 300 milliseconds of delay.

That would be a lot of delay for me. Maybe you meant 30?

I don’t miss some of the effects we used to hear in the 70’s and 80’s. I’d like to thank everybody for throwing away their phase shifters. No offense, Waylon, but nothing says cheesey quite like that little dooder.

[David Wren]

Fred, I use 300 milli-seconds on most of my delay settings, we used to call it a slap-back).

[Fred Treece]

For 50’s slapback on my guitar, I use about 90-100ms and crank the level to 70%. For steel, I’ve never really used a slap back type of delay.

[Lee Baucum]

Ray Price - Night Life

Now that's wet!

[Barry Yasika]

Thanks for some of the feedback. Looks like there's still guys out there using it and I'm suggesting anything is wrong with it. Just noticing a bit of a difference in trends. When I talk about what I think I remember some individual has said there a good chance I'm not quoting the exact thing he said. I'm not sure exactly what Mike Johnson said he used and could find the same video so correct it, so I apologize if I'm off with that statement.

[Donny Hinson]

As with any effects/processing, what makes sense should be informed by the music....So my advice is to keep an open ear/mind, don't be concerned with current or past trends, and do what you think serves the particular music, unless and until the MD/producer instructs otherwise. But I do agree that you should be comfortable playing totally dry.

I feel pretty much the same, as my EFX were always keyed to the type of music. Slow songs, more EFX like verb and chorus. Moderate tempo stuff, maybe a slight bit of verb or slapback. Fast stuff usually demanded very little EFX or everything gets jumbled up. On Blues, you usually don't want any verb, just maybe just a slight bit of hair. And on cover material, you should pretty much copy what's on the original if your goal is to mimic the sound. I'm not doing any playing now, but when I did, my EFX changed on almost every song, but I rarely used any echo.

[James P Mitchell]

Mike Johnson’s a good example—he’s said he only uses around 300 milliseconds of delay.

That would be a lot of delay for me. Maybe you meant 30?

I don’t miss some of the effects we used to hear in the 70’s and 80’s. I’d like to thank everybody for throwing away their phase shifters. No offense, Waylon, but nothing says cheesey quite like that little dooder.

300 is a pretty typical setting for a longer delay on guitars (and steel). 30 is lower than what we would typically think of as slap back and is more into the “doubler” territory.

As far as the topic itself, it really varies depending on the track for me. I pretty much always have reverb on though - little bit of spring at least. Seems like a lot of times people add a bunch of verb after the fact to my steel. Maybe that says something about my playing though!

I like layering lots of effects on it when it’s called for though - weird delays, synth sounds from the H90, slow leslie, etc.

I like phaser too - this was phaser, verb, echo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZWvW_RbdLQ

[Chris Templeton]

If there's a mixer, I think they generally like to add the effects and want a somewhat drier feed, unless the player's effect is needed for their sound.
The reverb adds distance, but that distance plays into how a mixing engineer pieces things together for the house mix.
In the old days, The the Sure column speakers were often used for vocals, and the band didn't go through the "PA", which meant having to have a good stage sound. If there's a mixer an amp may just be a monitor for the player.
,

[Brett Lanier]

If there's a mixer, I think they generally like to add the effects and want a somewhat drier feed, unless the player's effect is needed for their sound.

I’ve been setting things up at home (for recording) where I think I’m getting the best of these two approaches… Here’s my signal path.

Guitar, volume pedal, amp
Send to an iso cab in another room.
Mic on the dry speaker…
Mic pre -> reamp box (which brings it back to instrument level) then to the effects that I want,,, using a combo of an Ebo Everb + a digital hall/plate, then to a di which brings it back to line level and then into the interface/converter.

This way you get the sonic advantage of putting the verbs directly on the signal rather than mic’ing the reverb… but all the familiarity of your favorite effects right there beside you.