How many play all instruments on a recording ?

[Richard Tipple]

Just curious
I have recorded all my steel songs doing all the instruments.
1st I lay down the drums (with a drum machine) then I lay down the bass, then the rythem guitar and keys if needed ,and last I do the steel track all on my digital hard drive Fostex 16 track recorder.
I was just curious how many do it all like this ?
Sure saves on session players

[Tony Prior]

Richard I do as well on my projects but, there are times I would liked to have used another player because it offers a different approach or style..it mixes things up a bit...bringing in another Musician allows for a different "FEEL" to the mix.

[Jack Stoner]

I have a Fostex VF160ex. I have two steel CD's and I did everything except the drums (Alesis SR-16 drum machine). But I do it a little different, I run the drum machine and lay down the steel part. I go back and add bass, rhythm guitar and lead later.

I will be doing a new CD project this summer but it will all be a full "live" band on this one.

[Gary Shepherd]

I usually do all of my tracks. Pretty much as you described above, but not always in the same order.

[b0b]

I try to find other musicians that play better than me, since the only instrument that I play well is steel.

[Gary Shepherd]

I feel the other way around. The only one I don't play well is pedal steel.

[Richard Tipple]

I guess there are others that do it all
I guess Im lucky I used to play all that long haired hard country stuff back in the urban cowboy years on the six string
And Ive filled in enough on the bass over the years to get by on it.
Jack, do you use a programed drum part or do ya play the machine manually. Ive found it impossible to actually play the drum parts & keep the time on the button, although I do go back on a separate track & add some bells & whistles to the mix.
I love my Fostex VF80EX hard drive recorder the hardest part for me though is the finale mix down, getting the compression just right

[Jack Stoner]

I just use the pre-programmed Alesis drum programs (e.g. 31). I do have an added 3/4 program as the Alesis does not have a factory 3/4 program.

Playing with the drum machine keeps the steel in "time". Adding the other parts later allows them to "follow" what the steel is doing. That also gives more leeway to do whatever you want with the steel rather than restricting you if you lay down the bass and rhythm guitar first.

[Tony Prior]

drums first, basic guide rhythm track, FINAL Bass track, final rhythm track, ruff Guitar/Steel lead lines..Vocals if any. Final Steel, being fretless is always last.

Dedicated tracks on the 16 tracker for each Instrument and lead sheets prepared ahead of time before the red button is pressed. The Bass track is probably the most important of all the tracks as it must set the groove and yet not be in the way..

the biggest issue I have with canned drums is that they "are" canned and you have to work around them, fit what you are doing to the canned drum track..yeah you can edit to a degree but...

YUK ! I still use them though

But still, It would be nice to add another player just to get a different feel for the project, something other than stock "TONY" licks...

Sometimes I wonder if it would just be worthwhile to set the drums up again..plan a few tunes, get my drummer pal over here, record 4 or 5 drums tracks and be done with it.

It's always a time thing...

[Jeremy Steele]

Richard, my procedure is similar to yours except that the last thing I usually do is replace the drum machine track with real drums...nothing fancy, most often kick, snare and hat, with the occasional crash or tom fill.

[Greg Cutshaw]

My recording process is listed here and I play all the instruments. I spent sometimes 10 hours on a drum track step programming all the fills and breaks and adding little things to make it non-repetitive. I think my Boss DR-880 custom programmed sounds as good as a real drummer, but in any case, better than the majority of drummers I have worked with. I takes a few years to build up a large library of useful fills, intros, endings and base tracks for a drum machine. No click track here!

My recording process

Greg

[Ben Jones]

for me it works like this:
1. write the song. I do this on an acoustic. just start strumming and use whatever lyrics come to mind, then shape and mold into verse, chorus, bridge, ending whatever.
2. Drums. First i find the right tempo, then its drag and drop midi patterns from ezdrummer to sketch a basic drum track for the song. Fills and cymbals, the occasional extra snare hit, I do at the very end.
http://www.toontrack.com/ezdrummer.asp
check out ezdrummer, its good stuff.
3. basic guitar
4. bass
5. vocals
6. mandolin if needed or wanted
7. THEN steel...I am not a good steel player, after a year I can barely squeak out some stuff that vaguely resembles psg playing. If i do steel before vocals there will just be steel everywhere and often stepping on the vocals
8. electric guitar and solos of needed or wanted. I try to avoid it these days but its the only instrument i consider myself to be any good at.

here it is:
http://www.myspace.com/bobbysmiths

[Johnny Thomasson]

I record all the parts meself, although I'm planning to get Gary Carpenter to come over and lay down a steel track so I can tell everyone it's me....

My Zoom DAW has a built in drum machine. While I'm sure it's not on par with Greg's Boss unit, like Greg I think it sounds as good or better than most drummers I've played with when you put some effort into step programming the track. It does take some time, but it can do pretty much anything a human drummer can do and the drums sound real. You can get good dynamics by making changes in the velocity settings.

Then bass, then rhythm guitar. Then whatever lead parts the song calls for; steel, fiddle, mandolin, guitar or keys. Vocals last. Then I do the final mixdown, add insert effects, record the master track and burn to CD.

Got to add a pre-amp to my setup tho'...

[Dick Wood]

Hey Johnny,

I live just up the road from you in Springtown.Where all do you play around the area?

I like to get out and hear other players whenever I get a weekend off myself.

[Johnny Thomasson]

Dick - I sent you an email.

Johnny

[Alan Brookes]

I've been recording all the tracks for many years, since I first bought a Vestax Portastudio back in 1980. Later I bought a Tascam 388 Studio 8 8-channel reel-to-reel, which is basically a RTR Portastudio. I have two of those units. Recently I've been using a Yamaha MD8 8-channel MiniDisk Recorder, and I bought a Tascam 2488 Portastudio 24-channel hard disk recorder a few months ago, but it has a slow learning curve, so I haven't done very much with it yet.

25 yrs ago I was recording Mediaeval Music using period instruments which I built myself. Recently I've been doing a lot of Rockabilly, Blues and Country. I love most sorts of music. Give me anything with strings on and I'll play something on it....

[Ken Williams]

On most of the stuff I've recorded over the years, I've played most all the instruments. But as Tony mentioned, I wish I had more access to other musicians to add a different flavor to the music. I think different ways that musicians think help the music from being too predictable.
I start with the drum tracks, spending many hours adjusting timing and parameters to give it somewhat of a loose feel, or at least the best I can. If I was a drummer, it probably wouldn't take near that long. Then I add the bass, and other instruments. The vocals and steel are last to be put down, of course it may depend on the song. A friend sometimes puts the piano and other keyboard parts on there for me.

Ken

[David L. Donald]

I do it both ways.
Depends on the song,
and available players.

I can also play the drums over the miditrack
if I want, but prefer better drummers.

[Buddy Lewis]

I play most all the tracks on my recordings also. I find the best order is almost always: drums, bass, other rhythm instruments (guitar, keys, etc.) then vocals. Lastly I record leads (guitar, steel, fiddle, etc.). I record the lead instruments last because I find it easier to not step on the vocals that way. Lead instruments I find need to be farmed out to others as much as possible or I find myself hearing the same licks over and over again. Also, for those who find the repetition of a drum machine boring, I use a Yamaha Motif keyboard for drums (after using many other machines). This machine lets you play every note on every drum (and cymbal) all the way through the song. Velocity and pan for each part (and there are 16 tracks for drums) is also programmable. Lastly, for me there is no substitute for good mixing and editing software. I use Sony Soundforge, Sony Acid Pro, Cakewalk Sonar and Sony CD Architect, T-Racks24 and many plugins. Finally, I try to always keep in mind that it is a learn as you go process.

[b0b]

I have a Fostex VF160ex. I have two steel CD's and I did everything except the drums (Alesis SR-16 drum machine). But I do it a little different, I run the drum machine and lay down the steel part. I go back and add bass, rhythm guitar and lead later.

Jack, how do you play steel in tune with guitars that aren't there yet? If I don't have good reference instruments for my ear, I drift all over the place.

I prefer having other musicians play the other instruments because I'm not very good at them, but I have made several recordings where I played all of the instruments. I recorded BIAB tracks and played steel to that, then overdubbed guitar, bass and percussion (Roland Handsonic, bongo/conga, shakers, etc.). Once I get it to a certain point, I usually remove the BIAB tracks entirely.

[Alan Brookes]

The one thing I have realised recently is not to lay down the first track singing and accompanying yourself on pedal steel. With the human voice being so variable, as is the steel, you need something to anchor to. Play guitar and sing first. Otherwise, unless you're gifted in being tone perfect, you're going to drift out of tune, and not notice, because you'll automatically compensate for the voice being out-of-tune by playing the steel in tune with the voice. I learnt that the hard way by laying down a whole bunch of my own compositions, with just a rhythm track, me singing, and pedal steel, and when I came to put the other instruments in I had to start all over.

[Alan Brookes]

...Once I get it to a certain point, I usually remove the BIAB tracks entirely.

That's how I do it. I use MIDI or BIAB for the rhythm, which gives me a sound rhythm foundation, but it sounds artificial, so I add extra live percussion in later, and often remove the MIDI track completely.

Ironically, a lot of commercial pop music nowadays uses rhythm generators. I would have thought there were plenty of drummers around.

[basilh]

I would have thought there were plenty of drummers around.

There are Alan, they tend to hang around REAL musicians. !!

[Rick Alexander]

I start with a drum beat, then add rhythm guitar and scratch vocal. Once that framework is laid down, I record bass, guitars, keyboards, and as needed - mandolin, banjo, harmonica, & ukulele. The drums then get edited, replaced by real drums, or eliminated. Then if there are going to be vocal tracks I do them. I usually record Steel last, and that usually takes the longest to get right.
I hardly ever use other musicians any more - necessity has given me lots of experience playing the various instruments. The one exception is if I need female vocals, I get my wife Cathe to come in and do the honors. She's gotta be the best bg and harmony singer I know.

Some of my recordings are HERE.

[Jerry Gleason]

I do it much the same as others have mentioned. I usually start with a BIAB framework, brought into Logic or Digital Performer as a MIDI file, then layer audio tracks over it. I used to always replace the MIDI, but these days, sampled instruments are getting good enough that I can sometimes mix them with real instruments, after a little tweaking.

The "one man band" versus "real" musicians thing is something I still have mixed feelings about. If I were putting out a product for sale, I wouldn't do it the way I do now, I'd find good players and pay them to be on my project. But as it is, I do it for fun, and the amusement of a few friends, relatives, and whoever on the SGF that might dig it. I kind of like the challenge of doing all the parts myself.

Here are some of my recent jazz projects:

The Common Touch

Seven Come Eleven

Both feature some rudimentary C6 swing, and six-string guitar solos. On "The Common Touch", I wanted a piano solo with Bebop lines and block chords, but I don't play keyboard, so I had to struggle for hours playing the parts on a MIDI guitar synth to come up with anything that vaguely resembled jazz piano. A good pianist could have done something better in one take, but it was fun making it, and now I'm thinking of getting a better software piano.

So, after reading through this thread, I'm wondering, what do you guys do with these recordings? Aside from the professionals marketing a product, are most of us just doing it for fun, or to make them available for download, or just to drive your spouse crazy? I'd like to hear some of the work that others are doing. Charles Tilly's site has some good amateur recordings, and I have one up there. Anyone else want to post a link to some of your recordings? There must be some good stuff out there that not many people have heard.